Dr. Ane Turner Johnson serves as Program Director of the Ed.D. program and Associate Professor of Education Leadership at Rowan University in Glassboro, NJ
Dr. Johnson is an educational comparativist, with a focus on sub-Saharan Africa, who has conducted research in Ghana, Côte d'Ivoire, South Africa, Togo, and Kenya. She is currently working on a funded project investigating how university employees' indigenous knowledge impacts sustainable development in Africa. The majority of her work has focused on rebuilding universities in post-conflict countries and how universities contribute to the peacebuilding process during conflict.
Beth Dombkowski:
Hello. My name is Beth Dombkowski and I'm coming to you from the office of admissions at Rowan University in Glassboro, New Jersey.
Beth Dombkowski:
Welcome to another edition of Rowan Confidential. I am here today with Doctor Ane Turner Johnson. Welcome.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
Hi. Thanks for having me.
Beth Dombkowski:
Great. Just a little bit about Doctor Johnson. Doctor Ane Turner Johnson is an international education researcher with a focus on universities in Western and Southern Africa. She has conducted research in the Cote d'Ivoire Ghana, the Gambia, Kenya, Malawi, South Africa, Tanzania, Zimbabwe and Zambia.
Beth Dombkowski:
The majority of her work has focused on rebuilding universities in post-conflict countries and how universities contribute to the peace building process. She is currently working on a funded project investigating how universities employee indigenous knowledge to impact sustainable development in Africa.
Beth Dombkowski:
Doctor Johnson teaches research methods and higher education courses in the doctoral program in educational leadership. She has also served as dissertation chair and mentor to doctoral students in education leadership on topics ranging from student affairs to educational politics in New Jersey and across the nation.
Beth Dombkowski:
Welcome. Thank you for joining us today.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
It's my pleasure. Thank you.
Beth Dombkowski:
So I'm going to ask you some questions that our listeners are very excited to hear the answers to.
Beth Dombkowski:
What wakes you up in the morning? What's your inspiration and your passion?
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
Well, first of all, I'm a very lucky individual to be able to be a faculty member at a university in the United States. These jobs are hard to come by and I am incredibly lucky. I think some of it was my own effort but definitely a lot of luck, I think that went into me being able to find a position at a university, particularly one like Rowan, that has grown so much over the years that I have been here. I've been here for 10 years and it has just grown like leaps and bounds since I came here and so being a part of that change, seeing the campus grow, seeing any increase in students and programming and colleagues at the institution gets me excited every day. I'm hopeful for the future and for the institution and my role in it.
Beth Dombkowski:
So tell us a little bit about your research. What I've read and what I've seen online and in speaking to you, it sounds fascinating.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
Oh, thanks for asking about it. I get really excited about it. So I started studying education in under-resourced countries, specifically higher education. When I was in graduate school, I did my PhD at Virginia Tech and I had a very supportive faculty there who encouraged me to look at higher education in countries around the world, not just to become myopic and focus just on higher education here in the United States.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
As a result, I was able to conduct research in Kenya and Ghana for my dissertation and that got me sort of focused on looking at institutions in Africa, particularly at the time when I did my dissertation work in Kenya. It was right after their civil conflict after the election violence in 2008 and at that time a lot of my participants really wanted to talk about that and the work that I was doing. So that led me down the path to looking at universities and how they recover from civil conflict and the role that they play, both the victim role and the perpetrator role and if we could up in that paradigm at looking at institutions as playing a role in addressing and alleviating the conditions that that lead to violence and under-resourced context.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
So yeah, I love it. It's a very exciting topic.
Beth Dombkowski:
So how long were you there conducting your research?
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
So I've been, obviously I've been doing research in sub-Saharan Africa, Western and Southern Africa ,for about 10 years now. At the time for my dissertation, I spent a few months there doing my work.
Beth Dombkowski:
Had you had any experience in that area of the world? Were you familiar with their... What was your previous experience?
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
So I've been, again, I went to a women's college for my undergraduate degree, although I know, I'm talking about Rowan, I do want to hype single sex education and how critical it has been to my development.
Beth Dombkowski:
Oh, absolutely. I also went to a women's college.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
It's one of the best things that ever happened to me. Where did you go?
Beth Dombkowski:
Moore College of Art and Design. Where did you go?
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
I went to Hollins College. It's in Virginia. I'm from Virginia and it was such an amazing experience. But I met a faculty member there who served as a mentor, I guess saw something in me, which has really translated also into my own professional practice by the way. But saw something in me and offered me an opportunity to work with her on a project in Jordan.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
So when I was 19 years old, I got on a plane for the very first time in my life.
Beth Dombkowski:
That was your first time on a plane?
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
Very first time.
Beth Dombkowski:
That's a long flight for a first time.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
I know. I mean I grew up in very rural Virginia, first generation college student, first person of my family to go to school. So I couldn't believe my opportunity to do this and so I worked there with her for, I did like a J term is what we called it. So it's a January term and then after I graduated, she offered me a job so I got to go work with her for about six months and then that was sort of the beginning of my interest in the rest of the world and realizing that there was more to my life than just rural southwestern Virginia.
Beth Dombkowski:
Travel just opens up so many doors for people and opens your eyes to the way that cultures are around the world and you know, really gives you perspective on what's happening here at home as well.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
Absolutely.
Beth Dombkowski:
I would recommend travel to any student who is able to do it.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
Me too.
Beth Dombkowski:
What is one thing that you wish people knew about your academic discipline?
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
So I love this question because I think there are a lot of misconceptions about education in general, but I think that the thing I want to talk about is that there are a lot of other jobs in education besides being a teacher.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
Now being a teacher is very important and I cannot stress that enough and how much frustration I feel at the way that we undervalue teaching and teachers in this country but teachers work within an organization and that there are a lot of different types of jobs within that organization.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
I think that there's some misconception about that and so one of the things that I'm really excited about is that we are starting, we've started a bachelor's program in leadership and social innovation in my department, in the college of education, and this bachelor's program really focuses on developing those individuals who work within the educational organization, so one of the things beyond just the teachers.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
So for example, I don't think a lot of people know that higher education can actually be a career path for people. So you don't actually just have to be a faculty member, you can be a student affairs officer, you can be an admissions officer, you can work in the registrar's office, you can work in housing, there are a lot of opportunities in higher education. Of course I don't like to paint the university as a business or as an industry because I think obviously there are a lot of problems with that when we do that. But I think that if we think about the university as a place for employment opportunities, then that might direct our students towards thinking more broadly about education in general.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
So this bachelor's program is a great way for students to make the bachelor's in leadership and social innovation that we started in our department, as a way as a pathway towards a position within higher education, leading to a master's, for example, in higher ed or student affairs and really building a career at a university or even in an educational organization like a K through 12 environment or at a nonprofit that works with in education. So I think that that's a misconception is that it's just teaching when in fact it's so much more.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
[crosstalk 00:08:26].
Beth Dombkowski:
It's funny because I've been in higher education my entire professional career in admissions and enrollments and when I speak with students on the road, it seems that they only know the names of certain jobs and they don't understand the other possibilities within education and within other fields in general.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
So I started in higher education working for a nonprofit that was focused on higher education at One DuPont Circle in DC, that's where all the higher education associations are, and that's where I was doing my master's degree at the time in a completely different field and it was like, wow, this is an opportunity for my career that I hadn't really considered before. As a result, it led me to where I am sitting right here in front of you.
Beth Dombkowski:
Wonderful.
Beth Dombkowski:
So your students, how do you engage them in professional activities?
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
I love working with students because of this notion of the co-construction of knowledge. Oftentimes we think that faculty are just teaching students or teaching at students when in fact we're doing something together. Right. Part of that thing that's happening together as me learning from them. So much of what I have been able to do in my career, in my research and in my engagement with education in general, has been as a result of learning from my students.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
But one of the things that I think goes sort of unacknowledged about what I do with students is teaching them to use research to improve their professional practice. That's one of the ways, I think the critical way, that I engage students in their professional activities is how can you do research within your organization that can help you to address an everyday problem? How can you learn about that problem? How can you collect data on that problem, analyze that data, and then create a solution for that everyday problem that is evidence-based and that has the potential for some real organizational transformation and change.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
I think for me, that's where my efforts are best spent and also best used, is helping students to understand how our research can really lead to professional change.
Beth Dombkowski:
Do you think that students coming into the program have a misconception about what research is or think it's something that they want to avoid?
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
Absolutely. Yeah, definitely. I would think that's been part of my struggle as a faculty member because I teach mostly research methods and I find that even graduate students who are adults, don't like research or have misconceptions about what it is. So part of what I also try to do is share my enthusiasm for it because they might see that I'm having fun and that I love talking about these things and that might encourage them to not find it so scary.
Beth Dombkowski:
Maybe it's the word, I don't know. Some people might think of it as sitting in the library by yourself.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
Yeah, exactly, or sitting in front of a computer or just doing stats, right? Doing statistics, when in fact there is a whole gamut of different research methods and methodologies that a student or a professional can use and I think that that's part of my job is sort of to open their minds towards it, to encourage them to engage with it, even if it does seem a little scary and to let them know that you can learn this. That it is learnable and using it. I think that's one of the key things that people who teach research methods and students who learn it know that you learn research predominantly by doing it.
Beth Dombkowski:
And it can take you anywhere.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
Absolutely.
Beth Dombkowski:
Geographically, too.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
Well, look at me.
Beth Dombkowski:
Absolutely.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
But yeah, it definitely can transcend discipline. It can transcend jobs. It can transcend anything because it's a skill set that can apply across the board.
Beth Dombkowski:
So what is one thing that this field has allowed you to do that you either dreamed of doing or thought you'd never get to do?
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
Well, I do kind of want to go back to talking about what it's like being a first generation college student. Again, growing up in rural southwestern Virginia, I really thought, and this is no, I'm not casting aspersions on what it's like to be a banker or to work in a bank but I really thought that maybe that was what my life would be like is that I would work at the bank or in my little town or something like that.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
I think that by going to college, by having different degrees, so I don't have degrees in the same fields. They're not like, I'm not one of those people who did this and then continue to do it through their doctorate.
Beth Dombkowski:
So it wasn't a straight path?
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
Absolutely not.
Beth Dombkowski:
What are your degrees in?
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
So my undergraduate degree is in religion studies. I studied Islam and Arabic and then my master's degree is in conflict analysis and then my PhD is in higher education administration. So I went like, it's a path that was not straight by any stretch of the imagination.
Beth Dombkowski:
I don't think a lot of the best paths are straight.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
Or not rather.
Beth Dombkowski:
You know what? Because the more things that you learn, the more you learn about yourself.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
Absolutely.
Beth Dombkowski:
Not only do you learn what you like and what you want to do, you also learn what you don't want to do.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
Yeah and I think that because I didn't go into higher ed, again, as a first generation college student, I didn't go into higher ed with assumptions about what education was supposed to look like because I had just not had much engagement with it. No one in my family really knew much about it and so as a result, I kind of did the things that I was interested in. Of course my parents wanted me to be a lawyer. They thought that I would be great at that, but I was interested in other things and so I focused on the things that I was interested in. In the process of doing that, I was able to learn skills that transcended jobs.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
So I think one of the things, if I could just kind of go off track a little bit here is one of the things that students may be get really focused on is employability. I need a job and I'm going to get this job and I need to take these classes because they'll give me the skills that I need. But in fact taking an art class and doing an art project teaches you how to engage with problems creatively. Taking a humanities class and reading some great piece of literature teaches you how to critically think about things and these are implied skills. They're not necessarily competency base, which is I think sort of the terminology that we're using a lot these days is, how do we measure that? And these are things that aren't measurable and I think that not being so focused on what my outcome was going to be really gave me an opportunity to explore the things I was interested in and in the end get a really great job.
Beth Dombkowski:
It's really interesting that you say that. I know somebody who does own a software company who does not hire people with computer science backgrounds.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
Fascinating.
Beth Dombkowski:
He hires people with arts backgrounds because he said anybody can learn to code. What he wants is people who understand creative ways to solve problems.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
Yeah. I just think that's so important and I understand why we've gone in the direction that we've gone in. I mean, I understand that it's so much harder these days than it was maybe when I was coming out. I'm 43 now. I think that maybe when I was coming up, things might have been a little bit easier. I'm also a white middle class now woman. I understand that there are certain things about my identity that do make my life easier, that maybe not everyone has access to. But I think that beyond that, is that this idea that jobs kind of come and go, but these skill sets that you learn, these things, these soft skills if you will, are ones that you always have.
Beth Dombkowski:
They can be applied to any field.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
Indeed.
Beth Dombkowski:
So lastly, why Rowan?
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
It's so funny that you asked that. Well, when I was graduating from my PhD program, there was five of us who graduated my program and I was the only one that got a faculty job and I consider myself very lucky for that and Rowan was the place that offered me the job. So for that, I'm very thankful but I stay here because I love all the opportunities that I've been offered as a faculty member.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
So you know what I study, for example, probably isn't exactly what people in educational leadership study but I've had this opportunity, this encouragement by administration here at the institution and by my colleagues to really do the things that I'm interested in and I think that's wonderful. I mean, how much or how many opportunities people get to really explore and investigate the things that they are passionate about. So I think Rowan has really given me that opportunity.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
I also love how diverse my students are. I think if I were working at a place like, I don't know, Johns Hopkins or Harvard or wherever, I wouldn't probably get to see the diversity of students that I have and that's the jobs that they have, the lifestyles that they have, the lives that they lead and how they identify themselves. I think that that's really enriched my teaching. It's enriched me personally and also has enriched the ways that I approach research and think about my research and I think that Rowan is a really great place for caring about those types of things and trying to expand their profile in terms of the students that they serve and the community that they serve.
Beth Dombkowski:
Wonderful. Thank you so much. We are so lucky to have you here.
Doctor Ane Turner Johnson, PhD:
It's my pleasure.
Beth Dombkowski:
Thanks for coming in and talking to me today.
Beth Dombkowski:
This has been Rowan Confidential.