Justin Freedman, Ph.D. Casey Woodfield, Ph.D. College of Education
Beth Dombkowski:
Hello. My name is Beth Dombkowski and I'm coming to you from the office of admissions at Rowan University in Glassboro, New Jersey. Welcome to the first ever edition of Rowan Confidential. Today I am joined by Dr. Justin Freedman and Dr. Casey Woodfield. Dr. Justin Freedman is an assistant professor in the department of interdisciplinary and inclusive education. His research focuses on the use of clinical simulations in post-secondary education and implementing approaches to disability and accommodations, including universal design to create more meaningful participation for secondary and post-secondary students. At age five Justin was diagnosed with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder or ADHD and has identified as having a learning disability.
Beth Dombkowski:
Dr. Casey Woodfield is also an assistant professor in the department of interdisciplinary and inclusive education. Her research focuses on inclusive education, neurodiversity and stories of lived experiences of individuals who use augmentative and alternative communication. Her research and teaching aim to counter socially constructed notions of competence and voice, guided by the perspectives of disabled people as critical agents of advocacy and change. Thank you so much for joining me today. Welcome.
Casey Woodfield, Ph.D.:
Thank you so much for having us.
Justin Freedman, Ph.D.:
Thank you.
Beth Dombkowski:
Guys, I'm going to start by asking you some questions. Casey, I'll ask you first. What wakes you up in the morning? What's your inspiration or passion? What's your driving force?
Casey Woodfield, Ph.D.:
So for me, people and their stories. A little bit of background, my personal and professional priorities all center the possibilities that emerge when we start to understand communication and inclusion as inextricably connected human rights. I've been very fortunate in that I've been able to live and learn alongside friends, including my best friend, my lifelong best friend, colleagues, peers, students and educators who move and who communicate, and interact in the world in a range of ways. And so, I've gotten to live in inclusive spaces like that and live out inclusion in the ways that we imagine it in the field of disability studies that we'll be talking about today.
Casey Woodfield, Ph.D.:
So, what wakes me up in the morning is getting to collaborate with the people that I care about and to really honor the ways that they are the experts and contributing to a counter-narrative around how we understand disability as a form of diversity and who gets to lead that movement, and I really see them as the leaders of that.
Beth Dombkowski:
Oh, how interesting. Justin, what about you? Same question.
Justin Freedman, Ph.D.:
And I've also always been passionate, since growing up, about making the world a more meaningful and supportive place for people with disabilities. I mentioned that, myself, I was diagnosed with ADHD and a learning disability when I was five and I received special education services throughout my schooling. And now I'm really inspired as I get up in the morning thinking about the progress that has been made over generations in creating more meaningful access for people with disabilities in our schools and wider society. And that makes me want to go further, beyond the progress that has been made of just acceptance for people with disabilities but now moving forward to a world that doesn't consider people with disabilities to be exceptional or their needs to be special, but instead, as part of the diversity of our human experience that really enriches all our lives.
Beth Dombkowski:
That's so great. You guys are both so passionate about this, and I know this relates directly to your research. Justin, why don't you tell us about the scope of your research in this area?
Justin Freedman, Ph.D.:
Sure. Casey and I started collaborating based on our mutual interest of increasing the meaningful participation of students with disabilities in higher education, meaning in colleges and universities. And this began actually with my dissertation, which was about college students with disabilities and accommodations. So, around the country, students who received accommodations in college are typically go and they request a letter of accommodations, they register with an office on campus, and then they might be given things like extended time on a test, or they might be provided with extended deadlines, or access to a reduced distraction testing environment. Those are some of the common accommodations. And so, I wanted to really look at what do students say when they talk to their professors about these accommodations? Because they're commonly expected to communicate with professors.
Justin Freedman, Ph.D.:
And when I was up in Syracuse University with Casey, when we were doing our PhDs, I worked with professor Ben Dotger up there who used what's called a clinical simulation model, and this comes from medical education. It's where you hire actors and train them to portray a certain individual and it can create an opportunity to have a structured conversation that might be challenging, but in a low risk type of way. So, for example, having our college students who want to be teachers engage in a conversation with an actor who's trained to be a parent, in a sort of parent teacher conference. But in this case, the work that Casey and I are doing is looking at how students with disabilities talk to an actor who's been trained to be a college professor and talking about their needs, talking about their accommodations. And so, recently we partnered with John Woodruff on campus here in the Academic Success Center and Disability Resources Office and did this simulated meeting as part of a transition program called the College Compass Program.
Justin Freedman, Ph.D.:
And so, it was an opportunity for students coming to Rowan, as well as some students who have been here for a couple years, to practice having a conversation with an actor who's trained to be one of their professors. And what's interesting about this experience is that it's a video recorded, and so it allows students then afterwards to go back and watch themselves and look at, "How did I talk about my needs?" Or, "How did I feel when the professor said something that we trained them to do?" Like for example, ask them, "Tell me about what your accommodations mean for this course?"
Justin Freedman, Ph.D.:
And then, for us as researchers, it allows us to look at how students are talking about their needs in ways that we could think about supporting them throughout the process to make sure that they're getting their accommodations and really trying to engage in conversations that are really meaningful and supportive for them. And looking forward now, we're also interested in partnering with area high schools, thinking about can we do the same simulated meeting with high school students as a way to prepare them for the type of conversations they may be having when they come to colleges like Rowan.
Beth Dombkowski:
So, you two have been working together since you were in your doctorate program. Wow. How long ago was that? How long have you been working together?
Casey Woodfield, Ph.D.:
Oh my goodness. I think it's probably been about five years we've known each other.
Beth Dombkowski:
Five years.
Casey Woodfield, Ph.D.:
Yeah. I think that.
Beth Dombkowski:
And you're still working together, that's great.
Justin Freedman, Ph.D.:
Yeah. I actually grew up here in New Jersey and Casey's from New York and we never knew that we'd wind up reuniting from New York, both down to New Jersey. And so, we come from the same program and so we come from a similar kind of worldview and way of thinking about disability. And so, that's why coming here to Rowan, it's been such a really natural fit to start collaborating really just in our very first year here.
Beth Dombkowski:
Oh, that's awesome. That's great. Casey, we heard a lot about Justin's area and I know you're doing the same type of research. Is there anything that you want to tell us that's particular to you?
Casey Woodfield, Ph.D.:
I'll speak a little bit about how we've made this collaboration reflect both of our areas of focus and really merged that together. So, one of the things that is really important in thinking about how to design research is co-constructing it with the people who are participating in it and whose lives it impacts. And so, that's been a really exciting and creative experience for us, in that we are working to design this project to account for diverse ways of being and communication preferences and needs from the start. And so, in qualitative research, which is the background that we come from and some of the work that we do, it's typical to really sit down with a person or a student and interview them, prioritizing the speech that they create to give you an answer. And we know from our experiences as and with people who communicate in a range of ways that that's not always the most preferred or effective means of communication.
Casey Woodfield, Ph.D.:
So, that's really something that I think I've brought to this project is that we've designed with that in mind. And so, it's a way of universally designing inclusive research that creates space for a wide range of participation. And at the same time, it's really important to us that it be reciprocal. So, at the same time that students have told us that they benefit from having that structured space and a supportive environment, as Justin mentioned, to explore this experience and to practice. And we're also learning from them, we're insisting that we push that even further to look at the students who want to participate in this way as collaborators and co-constructors of the work. And that's imperative in our field and it's part of a representation of our collaboration that draws from both of our backgrounds.
Beth Dombkowski:
Oh, that's great. So, you actually see the impact of the work that you're doing firsthand. How do you see this impacting your field and the world, in addition to the results that you've already seen through the videos and through your students?
Casey Woodfield, Ph.D.:
We both identify as disability studies scholars who are committed to modeling and contributing to more inclusive and equitable schools and communities, and that means research too. So, that really connects to what I just talked about in terms of more universally designed and inclusive research design. But broadly speaking, and historically we've mentioned a little bit about how disability has been constructed and referred to in ways that put the onus on the individual to change and adapt to society. And those of us in the field of disability studies or other related areas really focus on the responsibility of society to change and adapt to reflect and honor the wide range of communication, movement, ways of being in the world that actually constitute the human experience. And so, this research not only helps us understand the experience students are having in the systems as we've built them, that we acknowledge have not been designed with them in mind, and positions us and them together to reimagine what those spaces look like. And the possibilities that emerge from working together and including everybody's voice in that.
Beth Dombkowski:
And I'd imagine some of your results are already being implemented here at Rowan University?
Justin Freedman, Ph.D.:
Yeah. And it's something that we are working closely with John Woodruff's office and the Academic Success Center, sharing these results. So, it's a partnership, really, and we're looking to partner more as we go forward. And one way we're doing that, in terms of moving forward, is through actually our classes. So, we've thought about how can we take what we've learned from this research and then get our pre-service teacher students who are taking our classes in the College of Education, who want to become teachers, and get them thinking about, what's the implications for practice of all this?
Justin Freedman, Ph.D.:
And so, one thing we're doing now is thinking about how then we can encourage professors here at Rowan and around the country to look at their own syllabus and look at their own practices and think, "Can I design my classroom in a way that really thinks about these accommodations ahead of time?" It's what we called the universal design approach. And the idea is that when students have need for accommodations, it's considered something that's maybe unique or special. But when we think about those needs ahead of time, there are policies that we can put in place that really expect those needs to come up and try to build a classroom environment that anticipates and is flexible for students who come with disabilities, and students who don't have disabilities but have varying needs.
Beth Dombkowski:
Oh, that's wonderful. Now, sometimes things don't go quite as planned. Can you tell us about a time when the outcome was not what you expected and how you moved forward with that?
Justin Freedman, Ph.D.:
Sure. So, Casey and I have just been talking about this in the last couple of days that the research we've been doing is about having a conversation in office hours and basically in a professor's office. But not all students want to come to a professor's office anymore, and we found out that a lot of students when they talk about their letter of accommodations, when they talk about their needs with a professor, they are typically now coming maybe at the end of class just for a minute. And so, they may be saying some of the same things, but in some sense the simulation in an office is not quite as authentic as we maybe had hoped for because students are not necessarily going to office hours to have that conversation. And we've also heard from students that they don't necessarily want to talk, often, about their accommodations with professors, it can be really stigmatizing.
Justin Freedman, Ph.D.:
If you're forming a relationship with a professor early on in which you're talking about your disability or you're talking about your accommodations, sometimes students have told us, and I experienced this as well as an undergraduate student, that they're worried about how they might be perceived. And so, that's some of the stuff that came out of our study. And when we, when we started to realize some of that, we started to think about how are we going to shift this? And then that comes back to the idea of, well then why are we having these conversations in the first place? And is there a way to make this less stigmatizing in the first place, for students?
Justin Freedman, Ph.D.:
And so, instead of just focusing on practicing to engage in these conversations, who is working to really try and create an environment that's more accessible in the first place? So, that's when the voices of participants, when something doesn't exactly go as you thought it did, it actually pushes you then to think about, well maybe we're going to change a little bit of what the end goal is here. It's not just about preparing students to advocate for themselves, but it's about advocacy as changing the policies in the larger environment. And so, that's something that's been really useful. And our colleague, Alicia Drelick, in our department is also working in collaboration across our classes to really brainstorm policies with our PhD students, with our undergraduate students, that we're going to then suggest to the university to create a more inclusive environment. And that really all comes from something not going as we originally thought it would in our research study and hopefully will really result in a really positive outcome.
Beth Dombkowski:
So, I understand that this research is something that you started on the doctoral level. What did you study in undergraduate, how did you get here?
Casey Woodfield, Ph.D.:
Well, I actually ... This is Casey. I studied American studies, business, and writing.
Beth Dombkowski:
Oh, okay.
Casey Woodfield, Ph.D.:
Yes. And I also studied cultural foundations of education and disability studies. So, I have a really diverse background and like I talked about it in the beginning, most of my priorities in my work come from personal experiences that I have wrapped my professional life around, to not be able to separate my work and my life. So, that is something that constantly surprises me, but actually when I look back at my background, I'm still doing all of the things that I started when I was in my undergrad, which I did at Providence College.
Beth Dombkowski:
Great.
Justin Freedman, Ph.D.:
And I actually always knew I wanted to be a teacher, so I studied history and secondary education and got a certification in New Jersey for secondary social studies. And then, that was at the College of New Jersey, and then I went back for a master's there in special education because I was really interested in how I could use my own experiences as a student with a learning disability and ADHD, as a strength, which was always really tough for me. But I thought if I could make this into a strength as a teacher that would be great.
Justin Freedman, Ph.D.:
And so, I got my masters and taught in Massachusetts and then found out about the program at Syracuse and really different ways of thinking about disability than are commonly talked about in schools. So, really things that we've talked about, how do we change the environment to create more access and meaningful participation? And that's when went for the PhD program up in Syracuse University.
Beth Dombkowski:
Wow. So, if we could go back in time and you could talk to your 18 year old self, what type of advice would you give yourself?
Casey Woodfield, Ph.D.:
I think the advice that I would give myself is the same advice that I probably need to heed a little bit as an adult as well, is a reminder that you matter and that your story and your voice really, really matters. And that if you feel that you can't find a person or a space that makes you feel like you matter, that maybe you need to create it.
Justin Freedman, Ph.D.:
And I would say, and I think this may be ties in with our research as well, because we are working, for example, with a lot of 18 year olds who are just starting out in college. I would say don't be ashamed of who you are. Even if it's an identity that other people might not see as quote unquote normal, don't be ashamed because one, it's important to be able to ask for help, right? And sometimes, I know I felt, and some other students have told us that they don't always seek out all the resources or help that they need because sometimes they fear a little bit or they're a little bit ashamed of their identities or what they've been told by other people about themselves. So, don't be afraid to seek out help, to advocate for yourself.
Justin Freedman, Ph.D.:
But then I'd also say don't be ashamed of who you are because you have so much to teach the world. And the diversity of who we are is really an opportunity to teach others about the changes that we can make to make our community, whether it's Rowan University, whether it's beyond Rowan University, to make it more responsive to the diversity of all of us. And so, I think, treating even the difficulties we have as opportunities to actually share, to teach the world, is something that we could all use a little more of.
Beth Dombkowski:
And to wrap it up, why Rowan?
Casey Woodfield, Ph.D.:
For me, Rowan is a place of possibility and partnership. So, there's a consistent message and mission from the university being committed to being a model of inclusivity in higher education, to the College of Education being committed to social justice and preparing educators who are ready and able to contribute to the transformation of schools and society. Those are all things that I have noted as I looked at Rowan, as I came to visit here, as I've gotten to know the campus and community here, that really align clearly with what we've been doing together, both of our backgrounds and our work. And the students, the fact that the students are leading initiatives that are also reflective of the priorities like neuro-diversity initiatives on campus, right?
Casey Woodfield, Ph.D.:
It makes me realize and feel confident in the fact that the university will lead us in the direction of the people and the students themselves, the things that they care most about. So, we have great opportunities to work on campus around the things that we care about with PhD students, undergrads and graduate students. And then, I personally get to work, as part of my job in local schools as a professor in residence. So, I get to bring this knowledge and the commitment of the university to inclusivity and equity to the local schools, to prepare the teachers, staff, administrators, and students and families who are the next generation coming to this campus. So, it's a really different and important experience that Rowan offers to faculty.
Justin Freedman, Ph.D.:
Yeah, and I would echo so much of that, especially coming here to Rowan, the opportunities for collaboration. We've talked a little bit about the way Casey and I are collaborating, Alicia Drelick in our department, but also we've now had four or five other faculty members in our department who are interested in the work that we're doing, who share the same goals, and who are looking to implement some of the policy changes, approaches to designing a syllabus that we're looking to do going forward in the spring and want to work together to reflect on that, to create a model for how professors all over the university, all over the country can be building more inclusive classroom environments at a college or university.
Justin Freedman, Ph.D.:
So, that type of collaboration is so invaluable. And then I would also say, I know I was really sold the moment I interviewed here at Rowan University in the College of Education on the commitment to social justice, to access, to success, to equity. That's such a part of the College of Education's mission, and I'm confident that beyond even our department, that we have campus leaders here in the university who also really want to back these ideas of creating a more diverse and equitable, and inclusive campus community. And so, we're excited for what's happened so far, even in our first year and a month, but also for all the things to come as we go forward here.
Beth Dombkowski:
Thank you so much for coming and speaking with us today. This has been Rowan Confidential.